Most residents are familiar with or have heard of
the Campground area (even if they have never found it!). The Campgrounds at Coosawattee are comprised
of 750 privately owned, deeded RV lots with power hookups and shared septic
systems. As I stated before, my first
foray into ownership within CRR was in the campground section. My lot and camper provided my family and
friends with an affordable get-away and a small (but very well appointed) home
away from home. I have to tell you, I
have many great memories of our times in the campground. Despite some things I’ve heard about certain
areas of the campground, I can say that my street was quiet, clean and I rarely
saw the owners of the other RV’s. My
little place was a great getaway and provided a peaceful and private
retreat. In fact, the family and friends
loved the area so much we quickly outgrew the tight confines of the RV and I
ended up finding a great buy on a foreclosure in the residential area.
I have to be honest, although my experience in the
campgrounds was exceptional; I have done enough exploring in the area to know
that there are areas that need some help.
The primary issues I see that haunt the campgrounds today are actually
the ghosts of the past. The last couple
of years (and revision to the building covenants) have proved to be healthy for
the campgrounds. A lot of the current issues
that residents, as well as myself, have with the area are the old, unkempt and
often abandoned properties. The other
issue lies in often shoddy construction or RV repairs that would not meet any
Architectural Review Committee or safety requirements. Fortunately (unfortunately), most of these
issues arose in years past when the monitoring of construction was not regulated. New building requirements and closer
attention paid by CRR management is slowly correcting these problems.
Aside from known flaws, the campgrounds are very
unique properties that can provide families the opportunity to enjoy our
beautiful community without full-out homeownership. They also provide a sizeable amount of our
income each year. I am a big supporter
of the campgrounds and would like to detail some of the reasons that the
campgrounds are vital to CRR’s overall health.
PROS:
· The campgrounds (by my best approximation)
consume less than 5% of the overall land mass of CRR. However, the dues generated by the campground
properties represent 10% of our overall dues revenue. There are 7500 lots in CRR – 750 of those are
in the campgrounds. Not too shabby.
· By majority, the campgrounds are utilized by
‘occasional use’ owners. These are
typically weekend visitors in spring, summer and fall. The dues generated by occasional use owners
far outweigh the use and wear and tear on amenities and infrastructure.
· These visitors may also become future
homeowners. I have heard numerous
stories from people that had purchased a lot in the campgrounds and ultimately
ended up falling in love with CRR and purchased a home.
· The campgrounds provide additional exposure for
the tent and RV rental campsites as well as the Ogden road RV Park. These are the rental sites owned, maintained
and operated by CRR.
CONS:
· Aging properties. There are many properties in the Campground
section that are showing their age or simply have not been maintained. The recent change to allow roof-over
construction is slowly fixing this problem.
Roof-overs provide protection from the elements and in general keep the
RV’s clean and looking good.
· Lack of Pride in Ownership. I think that the Great Recession may have had
a hand in some of the abandonment issues, nonetheless I have witnessed general
lack of caring. When I had my camper I
made special trips to CRR to do routine maintenance cleaning on the lot and
RV. All properties come with a great
deal of maintenance. It doesn’t matter
if you have a $250,000.00 cabin or $15,000.00 RV – they all need maintained!
· Clutter.
Let’s face it, campers don’t provide a ton of storage and when RV’s are
used as small cabins you can acquire a lot of ‘stuff’. It is important to plan ahead with additional
storage if you are a ‘stuff’ gatherer like me!
Revitalization:
My sincere hope is that the CRR management and Board
continue to make concerted efforts to focus attention on the campground’s needs
and revitalize this asset. Some things
to consider that will make a large and positive impact on the properties as a
whole:
· In house legal counsel should seek avenues for
obtaining rights to remove abandoned units and clutter from known
eyesore properties.
· Additional research efforts should be put into
place to locate owners of trouble properties and advise them of the issues with
their properties AND detailed steps that can be taken to correct issues (this
is common practice in all HOA’s).
· Put into place a Local Operating Procedure for
verifying the installation and age of all RV’s entering CRR by owners of deeded
lots. Our covenants specifically state
no units older than 15 years. I realize
that options for enforcement become limited once a unit is located on the
property, but proactive policy and installation requirements would give CRR
more legal authority if the proper steps were not taken.
My last suggestion is a controversial one, but an idea that
would make a HUGE difference with some of the older neglected properties:
· Create a temporary CRR Buyback
Program. Offer owners of neglected, or
eyesore properties a predetermined, nominal cash payout and past dues
forgiveness for their lot and camper.
Demolition and removal could then occur hassle free. There are many recyclers that would come and
take the old RV’s for free if the unit is given to them.
· This program could be operated by our current
real estate staff, would improve needed areas of the campground AND raise
property values – in turn making CRR’s investment worth more when resold.
So, these are my ideas and thoughts on this unique
asset. I have seen the campground
changing for the good over the last few years and I hope this trend
continues. It appears that most of the
vacant campground lots owned by CRR have been sold this past year. More investment and activity can only lead to
better things along the Coosawattee River.
I’d love to know your thoughts. I
know this post is a borderline ‘hot button’ topic, so please keep all comments
civil and constructive.
Till next time,
Chris
35 comments:
Looking forward to your viewpoint on this -- even if I don't agree.
Unlike the Villas, the Campgrounds defies my ability to have a solid opinion. I live nearby and used to take Ogden Road to leave CRR. Frankly, I came to realize that the view was so depressing that I now always take the *longer* route down Newport. (Although the massive number of deer browsing along Newport is *almost* as depressing.)
The Campgrounds and problems within it are (IMO) a very complicated situation. I am very open to hearing your opinions and look forward to discussing it with you.
Good goals. Reasonable ideas -- although I believe there would be more problems with them than you might expect. There are a few problems that you missed, however...
The demography in the campgrounds breaks down into three main categories: Lot owners who visit with their RV occasionally. Lot owners who maintain an RV on the lot full-time, and visit it occasionally, and families that actually live in their RV lot full-time.
I'm quite certain that the last category was *not* what the original developer envisioned. (In fact, I understand that some lots still have provisions that the RV may only be occupied 9 months out of the year.) I think this full-time category is also the cause of 90% of the problems you describe.
A.) The infrastructure of the campgrounds was not designed for full-time use. That's why it's falling apart.
B.) You point out how "valuable" the Campgrounds are because they pay equal assessments to home owners, yet only generate a small fraction of the maintenance costs. Basically, you are saying that they are "highly profitable" for CRRA. ...And you are right!
...And from what I've observed, most campground owners are not very happy about that. Add a prominent community homeowner asking the Board at a recent meeting to levy a special assessment on campground owners to pay for the "water meter disaster" -- which they had absolutely no control over... My guess is that most campground owners feel like they are "second class citizens" in CRRA. If "lack of pride" is a problem in the campgrounds, I suspect this is the main influence.
C.) Since most campsite owners are allowed to live in their RVs full-time, they have become highly desirable for low-income, working-class families. Have you noticed that all meetings with campsite owners are scheduled either after 5PM, or on the weekends? Have you noticed that almost *all* committee meetings are scheduled on weekdays between 9AM and 5PM? Think there might be a reason for that?
It would be very interesting to see asset and income and job-status demographics for campsite owners vs. homeowners. I would guess the gap to be fairly huge.
D.) You neglected to mention the crime problem in the campgrounds -- specifically that there have been *two* major busts of meth labs there in the last two years, roughly a year apart. This does not inspire confidence in the membership -- especially since last year's Board of Directors cut the budget of Public Safety in half.
I believe the crime problem is because the campgrounds has become a a major alternative "low-income housing" opportunity for the Ellijay area. Where else can you buy a relatively nice 30-foot RV *and* the a lot it's on for $17k or less, and only have to pay $650 per year to live in it?
E.) Since I have been a Director on a POA and had to deal with abandoned properties, I can tell you first-hand that legal options for the POA to do anything about them are extremely limited. At least, where I lived, they were.
F.) CRRA is already seriously underfunded. They cannot even afford to enforce the rules they already have, much less start another messy legal battle with campground owners *and* implement a buy-back program.
Personally, I think the solution would be to re-instate the "no full-time living" rule. But that legally cannot happen. Also, I think most of the low-income families in the campgrounds are basically good people, and can't be blamed for taking advantage of a good opportunity. I wouldn't want to uproot them, anyway.
But hey! Maybe I'm just too pessimistic. If you can make these solutions happen, more power to you! I certainly won't get in your way.
I'll comment more, but I agree with your comment on committees. They should not be formed to accomodate retirees only. The filibustering voice of that group holds us back.
"These issues often 'grow legs' and become overblown - as is a common issue in large property owner associations. It is all too often that negativity is spread by a few negative people."
8D
Brian, here are some additional thoughts. First and foremost I’m not so sure that people, regardless of their demographic, living in their RVs is the issue at hand. I don’t think it is up to anyone to decide how and where someone lives. After all, the ‘campground’ property is residential property, just smaller with more covenants attached AND they pay the same dues structure as homeowners. I believe the issue at hand is the condition of said properties.
Whether someone occupies their space 1 day a year or 365 ½ days a year really doesn’t make any difference as long as the property is maintained. When I owned in the campground there was an elderly couple down the road that I assumed lived there as they always seemed to be there when I was. I was perfectly OK with this. Aside from being friendly and keeping their property neat as a pin, it was actually nice knowing that someone was around as there never seemed to be anyone else on the street. Some human presence in any rural situation is welcome when you have an unprotected investment.
Now, I do agree with the recent inclusion of the 180 day occupancy rule added to the deeds of all CRR owned campground properties. The 180 day rule was only added in the last couple of years when Flint Timber deeded a number of lots back to CRR in lieu of dues. But, again, this is reactionary to the real issue at hand – Pride in Ownership.
I’ve also seen comments about infrastructure on other boards that I would like to address. Infrastructure arguments seem to be the old standby for any party that is down on the campground owners. However, they simply don’t hold water. Infrastructure is a very generic term for the area as a whole. Does ‘infrastructure’ refer to roads, electrical systems, water, septic? All of these things are the same regardless of where in CRR you travel.
1.)I have seen numerous other instances where people stated that the “septic systems were never designed for full-time living”. This is a ridiculous. A septic tank is a septic tank. They don’t make a septic tank especially for campground situations or ‘occasional use’. They make them larger. Permits are issued based on the number of ‘contributors’, not average use. Rating are based on gallons of processing. Anyone that makes that comment obviously does not know how a septic system works. Furthermore, I personally have never heard of any of the systems failing or needing repair.
2.)Another comment is that the water system is failing. This is not true at all, and again, what does this have to do with anyone using water full time? Use of water is not aging the system. It is the occasional leaks that occur in any system due to age – not use. The issues with the water system were located and fixed last year. And, as we know, the water system in the residential area was also updated recently due to its age and lack of pressure.
3.)The majority of the roads in the campground section are gravel and typically in pretty good shape. There have been instances where rain has created wash outs or chatter bumps, but that is life on a gravel road.
Another usual topic discussed is crime. Aside from a few instances that are fed through the seedy underworld of anonymous internet trolling (Topix) I have seen few actual cases. I owned a property in the campground for years and NEVER had a problem. Let’s face it, this happens everywhere. Now, I know some will say “Yes, but if property values were higher these issues may go away”. Well, I agree and please refer to my post under the “Buy Back Program” and my bullet point on Pride in Ownership.
Regardless of anyone’s opinion, the true fix is attention and money. Until sincere discussion on those two topics occurs then only opinions will abound. I maintain my stance on the value of the campgrounds and I do believe changes are happening for the good. I can foresee a lot of good things happening in that area in the next five years.
I'm a little confused about your position. On the one hand you seem to be saying the problems aren't caused by people living in the campgrounds, "...that people, regardless of their demographic, living in their RVs is [not] the issue at hand. ... I believe the issue at hand is the condition of said properties."
The properties didn't get in those problem conditions by themselves. The people living on those properties created the problems...? How could it not be related to the residents?
Even if we say that "lack of pride" is the problem (and I agree with you) you have to ask "Why do they not take pride in caring of their property?" Are they discouraged? Are they too busy making a living and too tired at the end of the day? Do they just not care? If you don't know why they lack pride, you cannot accurately address the problem. All you can do is guess. Assuming a buy-back program would help solve the problem is a very expensive guess. And of course, if "they just don't care" there is nothing you can do to change anything.
I'll admit that my comments on the infrastructure are speculative, but so are yours. I don't know for sure that the infrastructure for the campgrounds was built for "light duty". On the flip side, you can't say that "a septic tank is a septic tank". The septic tanks in the campgrounds are shared -- as I understand it -- 3-4 lots to a tank. This presents unique problems. Furthermore, at the time these lots were developed, building codes were much more lax or non-existent. So while I cannot say for sure that the infrastructure was not designed for full-time use, it's certainly isn't an unreasonable speculation. The fact is, short of detailed inspection of the infrastructure, whatever either of us say is just speculative.
I hope you aren't insinuating that the two Meth labs busts were just rumor, or just an unusual occurrence. They happened a year apart, and both were covered in the local newspaper. And these are the only disturbances in the campground. Just last spring, Katrina Burrell sent an emergency notice that the Sheriff's Department had closed Ogden Rd because of reports of an armed man threatening a neighbor. Comments I have gotten from from other campground residents through my blogsite indicate that the situation there is "less than peaceful"
You state that you "owned" a lot in the campgrounds for years, and had no problems with crime. This is the most common kind of false "logic" that CRR residents use:
Example 1: "I owned a campground for years and visited it occasionally, and NEVER saw a problem... THEREFORE, there must not be ANY problems for ANYONE ELSE either. Anyone claiming that problems exists is exaggerating or spreading anonymous rumors."
Example 2: "I feed the deer. The deer don't cause any problems for me. THEREFORE feeding the deer shouldn't cause problems for anyone else, either. Anyone complaining about me feeding the deer is being unreasonable or just hates deer."
Basically, the dominant logic of the CRRA membership is typical of "The Principles of the American Cargo Cult"... "If it's good for me, it's good. Society is everybody else."
....That's what's really at the heart of the problems here...
Just my opinions and my take. I have owned property in the area and am only speaking from my point of view and personal experiences. When I state that I never had an issue in the area, that is exactly what I meant. 'I' never did and was not speaking for anyone else. I do remember the issue near Ogden last summer (I believe). I did not see a final closure on that to find out what happened. Mental disability I'm guessing. Our opinions actually meet dead in the middle. Pride in Ownership has and will always be the main issue in any community.
Regarding the septic systems and any failure that may occur; each land owner agrees to pay their equal portion of all repairs should they need done. Those provisions are in each deed.
Like you, I wish there was simple answer, but I am open to discussion:) I'll be out of town for a few days but will check back remotely.
Thanks for the clarification. I would also concede that you're correct that regardless of quality, any infrastructure will work adequately if maintained adequately.
The problem is that a poorly designed or constructed infrastructure means high maintenance costs -- and then you get into the problem of distributing those costs back in a way that feels fair to everyone.
True, campground owners split the costs of septic maintenance. Personally, I would be very hesitant on that kind of arrangement.
If a neighbor on my system lived there full-time, and was very careless with what they put down the drain, that would force me to pay for maintenance that I did not contribute to -- especially if I were only visiting a dozen weeks per year.
But maybe those problems don't happen. I don't claim to be an expert on these subjects.
Just as an aside, I've recently driven down Ogden a few times just to see how things have changed. There is now a new fifth-wheel in a little "cove" campsite that I thought was particularly nice.
The owner has a dual-rear-wheel truck, and has chewed the front of the campsite into a huge mudhole, and dragged much of it onto Ogden Road.
This is probably against the CRR's or R&R's -- but who is enforcing them? Obviously, this person has absolutely no pride in his home or community. How do you propose to change that? Buy back his lot?
The same driveway approach regulations apply in the campground as they do the residential. All owners have to maintain an appropriate level of 'apron' riprap to prevent washouts and instances just like this. Roads and grounds should be alerted. They'll need to have a discussion with the owner.
I get your frustration, though. Sometimes people get really clost to 'nice' and then blow it at the end:)
Having mud dragged out into the street is a problem but it was noted that this is a new site. Sometimes setting up a 5th wheel can be a lot of maneuvering to get it in place and stir up a wet site pretty quick, it can also be a lot of trips to the hardware store while doing it.
I am sure that someone in the residential area has done the same at some point. Maybe it is not as noticeable on the "Gravel"roads.
Since I have not seen this I'm really just speculating as to why it has happened. If it continues then possibly the comment on no pride might be applicable. If Ogden was closed to thru traffic it would be a lot safer, protecting folks from driving thru a R.V park and help preserve the road from over use
John...
What you say is certainly possible. (I own a camper trailer myself.) It looked like a long-term mess to me, but I can't say that it is. You'd have to check with the neighbors.
Frankly, the solution I'd like to see is "self-government" of the campgrounds as a "separate, sub-POA" that isn't controlled by the whims of us homeowners -- but that's unlikely to happen.
The problem is that Ogden provides access to the Riverside Rec Center. If it didn't, that could be done, I think.
Frankly, I'd be VERY happy if Ogden was "cut" at some point to block through-traffic. It would *tremendously* reduce the dust problems on my gravel road -- which is caused mostly by home-owners using Ogden as a 1-2 minute "shortcut" to the Legion Road gate, and/or as a "shortcut" to the Riverside Rec Center.
I just got an "complaint" message on Life-at-CRR (against me, or course) that mentioned something odd...
"We have to pay off duty police to come in here and show a presents, which helps.That is why we only have one officer now."
I didn't know that CRR was paying off-duty officers to patrol. The only area I know that is/was patrolled heavily by the Sheriff's department is the Campgrounds -- after the meth-lab busts.
It appears this person is saying that the cost of the Sheriff's department patrols is the reason why the Public Safety Budget was cut in half last year.
If this is true, it means that the Campgrounds have taken away half of the Public Safety Department -- which benefits *all* CRR members -- just so they can prevent crime in *their* small area.
Does anyone know if this is accurate? Backed up with verifiable facts? (And are you willing to state them here?)
The sheriff presence is not only for the campground. This comes from another site, a poster named "Betty" "I actually know someone who works in dispatch for the county. And there are more drug problems on the em bb bl bf side than in the camper section. There is actually a drug dealer on the eagle mountain side that they are looking into. And there are more domestics on the em side rather than the emc side. It's not a bad place. There is law breaking everywhere you go. Even in this very nice community"
Of course there are drug problems in Coosawattee, but it's not limited to the campground, nor to the resort for that matter.
Regarding infrastructure in the campground, it IS failing. This is because the campground was never originally planned, but was instituted as a last resort when home site sales were not supporting the vision. I recently spoke with a man who's family owns the company that originally cut the roads and installed the infrastructure. He told me that no one currently knows where the septic tanks are, proven when recently our tank backed up - it took four men two full days to locate our tank to service it. They have no idea where all the tanks are, whether that are in good condition or not. This same person also told me that the tanks and water lines were installed using whatever was available. Our single water line that provides water to all 750 sites is composed of many different short off cuts of piping.
I took a shower this morning, and realized too late that the water was brown, loaded with floating debris. I pay full dues, AND $480 a year to have running water. The POA has charged the campground property owners more than once for system upgrades, none of which have happened. So in addition to the high cost of water, we have to spend even more to purchase bottled drinking water, which amounts to an ADDITIONAL $400 a year.
My camper is old and ugly. I would love to replace it. Unfortunately because of the 15 yr old camper restriction, I cannot afford to do so. There are many clean beautiful older campers that would improve the appearance of my property. But I am stuck with what I have.
Yes, I am low income and disabled. But it is not lack of pride that makes my modest home look trashy. It's the ridiculous rules. If a camper is clean, well kept, and a major improvement to what I currently have, why shouldn't I be allowed to replace my ugly old trailer with it??
Regarding crime in the campground, I've never had a problem, and I never even lock my place up.
The way we are treated is appalling, and very disheartening. Although I am grateful for my shelter, I am disgusted by the poor maintainance and attitude we in the campground are subject to. We hate the litterbugs and the truly trashy people that live in here just as much as the next person.
To anonymous:
I can believe everything your said. The CRRA management has completely surrendered all policing and patrolling to the Sheriff's Department. They do not wish to spend any of our money to improve our own security and reputation. They have decided to "leave it in the hands of the government because we pay taxes"...
(This is not intended as a criticism of the Sheriff's Department. They do what they can with the limited amount of funds they are given. I have no complaints about them.)
As for the nature of campground owners themselves, you are a "mixed group". I don't doubt you are telling your story honestly. You are the kind of person I would defend and support. Unfortunately, the CRRA management (and our society in general) make it impossible to separate the wheat from the chaff. Like everything else in our culture -- it is black or white, all or nothing. only winners or losers.
Sorry, but if I have to chose in a black-or-white set of rules.... 8(
P.S. to "Anonymous One".... I wish the best of luck to you.
Brian, your comment was deleted due to copyright infringement. Thanks, Chris.
It was a YouTube link. Not one of mine. And it was not a copyright infringement. Google would have removed it already if it were.
But "as you wish".... It's your blog.
are fences allowed in the campground? I was told no permit...just build it!
are fences allowed in the campground? I was told no permit...just build it!
Better double check with ARC. I don't think you need a permit, but pretty sure ARC has to approve. Please remember where the 'just build it' philosophy has taken us in the RV section. Best wishes!
I am so glad that I found this blog before we made the financial disaster of purchasing an RV lot in Coosawattee!
I lost my home two years ago, due to cancer. We purchased a new camper trailer to live in and are currently living in a lovely RV park in Cumming. Our landlord doesn’t put up with ANY crap out of the renters and if anything needs to be fixed, it’s done immediately! The result is a great RV park with long term, happy tenants. The lots look like well-maintained homes and everyone helps everyone!
The only reason we were considering moving was that I started a business in Ellijay and am driving an hour and fifteen minutes each way every day I’m open.
I certainly won’t risk the lovely park we are currently in to move into a park with this many issues! Thanks for the warning. The issues with the infrastructure alone are enough to scare us off. We are certainly not second class citizens just because we chose to live in an affordable way. You never know what circumstances lead to living decisions! I hope things improve because I have a friend that lives there.
Something really needs to be done about the people selling drugs around the campground, it is very bad.we can tell which one's it is, all you have to do is watch them make their sells.
I would certainly hope you call the authorities. You are right - something should be done and if you are seeing it happen you should step up and help.
Wow. I am really glad I found this site before purchasing in the campground. We are retired, both hold advanced degrees, own an upscale home outright in Florida,and quite frankly are probably a class above the judgemental homeowners who probably couldn't afford the combined cost of my home and camper. We will look in a more community, less judgemental area.
My goodness!!! You are by far the most judgemental of all posters on this thread!!! We bought a new 5th wheel and set it up in the camp ground 4 yrs ago and have enjoyed every minute. Totally love the kind helpful neighbors. Don't think I'd want you for a neighbor tho. Btw we also have a lively home in Fla . Can't imagine having such a uppidy attitude there either.
I don't have a comment. I need help, just purchased a travel trailer and lot. Where do you find someone to put a cover over campe r .Thanks in advance
So can I stay full time in my new RV? I've read through all the Covenants and didn't see anything about not being able to.
At one point in time there were covenants on some CRR owned and sold lots limiting the duration of stay per year. However, those stipulations have been removed. If your deed states a limitation you will need to visit the POA to get the paperwork to have removed at the courthouse.
Welcome to tiny home nation ! Where most of us have learned to CUT our expenses, can food, and find ways to enrich our lives in nature with our kids if we have them! It sucks that people can’t handle life and turn to drugs- and run into our beautiful trees and rivers to hide from themselves ! Hopefully those folk will either sober up or find their demise. I however am a single parent and trying to get my kids and I in an area where we can enjoy the healing effects of nature, the healing effects of not stressing out over a lack of money and necessities, and just live and be happy. I think I’ll buy me a lot and set my RV up in it ! Hope I don’t get treated bad or talked about or judged - maybe they got a lot way out of view so my kiddos won’t be shunned ! This looked like a gorgeous open minded community and it more than likely is- but don’t judge low income people for the DRUGS and trash. Pretty soon shit will hit the fan everywhere and all well have is each other and our little rvs. Hopefully way later than sooner self sufficiency is the answer- May concentrate and creating clubs that teach us all this things again instead of figuring out away to chase people out. I am all for the druggies going !
Aside from drugs what other crime is prevalent in the resort? Are the drug dealers still there?
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